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About realism in Skyrim
http://enbseries.enbdev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=5434
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Author:  Lastblade [ 12 Mar 2017, 17:56 ]
Post subject:  About realism in Skyrim

Fist of all I want to say the following post is a general rant on the common cliché I see around internet about skyrim, and I post it here just because is the only modding forum I joined.
So I hope not to offend anyone, is not my intention.
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I'm really really tired of the usual stereotypes on "realism" about the graphics on Skyrim.
In what kind of hell washed out colours and grayness represent nordic/cold country environments?
To be onest all the washed out colours just remind me a realistic bad pollution day on Beijing :D

Image

I see to much washed out preset tagged with name as "Uber Realistic/Super realistic!/Amazingly realistic!".
Well, they are not.
I'm not saying they are ugly or are bad preset, they can be beautifull.
And I'm not criticizing the work modders done, but we* should recognize them for what the preset are: fantasy, cinematic or artistic.
But more importantly we* should stop to say that more vivid preset are unrealistic or "too fantasy".
Realism or fantasy came from the good balance of colors, if they resemble the colors of real things they are realistic, otherwise they are fantasy or artistic.

*(The "we" is meant as the whole players comunity, and not "we" as member of this forum of course :P )

Just for example, since a photo can say more than thousand words, an actual photo of Norway (Probably the Nordic country more similar to skyrim):
https://pixabay.com/p-441867/
Image

Some other photos from wikimedia:
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File ... ay-adj.JPG

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File ... y_Park.jpg

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File ... n_2009.JPG

Author:  mindflux [ 12 Mar 2017, 18:34 ]
Post subject:  Re: About realism in Skyrim

Nice write-up, I completely agree.

I also agree in that's it's mostly simply a semantic issue, meaning that I think that many people who feel like a preset is "realistic" mean that it does a good job in imitating a cinematic style. In most cases this means washed out, desaturated colors, possibly a slight odd tint and low contrast, i.e. a style that's reminiscent of many "serious" contemporary movies. In my opinion it's not very "realistic" if we accept that realistic means how we see the world with our own eyes, only perhaps when considered as a portrayal of a video shot with an old low-quality video camera from the 80s or a movie shot with c-log or whatever, before any color grading.

But it's not really a problem I think, there are apples and oranges and as long as people are happy with that they've created that's great. Also, it would seem like most ENB preset creators are not afraid to use color, which is just awesome.

Author:  LucidAPs [ 12 Mar 2017, 18:48 ]
Post subject:  Re: About realism in Skyrim

Agreed it's a trend i fell victim too or more accurately i should say i contributed to it aswell :D , realistic was or will be eventually be replaced by "photorealistic" which in my opinion is better but also wrong because the look changes dramatically between cameras so it's kinda all nonsense in the end. So we can conclude it's mostly done for a better sale pitch that will catch a user's attention because at some point we all look for the "realistic" look without actually knowing what that means and we settle for "that is close enough".

Author:  ENBSeries [ 13 Mar 2017, 04:02 ]
Post subject:  Re: About realism in Skyrim

I had lot of quarrel with users about this. Most people seems see no difference, it's like blind can't see and no matter how hard you try, can't explain how things looks like, obvious to one is strange and abnormal for another.

Author:  Lastblade [ 13 Mar 2017, 20:50 ]
Post subject:  Re: About realism in Skyrim

Thanks to all for the interesting replies :)

Fully agree with you mindflux that is mostly a semantic issue, but sometimes the name or the description is misleading and perpetuate this inaccurate preconception :(
More than the movie appearance I fear the main "culprit" is the vanilla appearance, who many associate with cold environments without understanding that the developer chose the vanilla palette to try to give to the game a grim and dramatic fantasy atmosphere, more than a realistic appearance.

Of course there's nothing wrong with liking this kind of atmosphere, but I don't like when is considered the "official realistic cold environment" and more balanced palettes are tagged as "less realistic" or even fantasy!

mindflux wrote:
as long as people are happy with that they've created that's great.

Agree, the best things about modding is that we can make the game to look how we like, and this is always great.
The variety of presets available for ENB is more than welcome! :D

mindflux wrote:
Also, it would seem like most ENB preset creators are not afraid to use color, which is just awesome.

They have all my respect! :D

LucidAPs wrote:
realistic was or will be eventually be replaced by "photorealistic" which in my opinion is better but also wrong because the look changes dramatically between cameras so it's kinda all nonsense in the end.

True, you have absolutely a point here! :) I also think that photorealism deserve its own definition in respect to "naked eye" realism, even if the difference is more subtle compared to cinematic or artistic filters (But if is difficult for skyrim player learning the difference from realistic and fantasy, try to explain the difference from realistic and photorealistic would be an herculean effort! :P )
I really like some photo/lens filters, for example I love effects like chromatic aberration even if is not "naked eye" realistic.
For the "better sale pitch" I think you are right, nothing really serious and probably done in good faith due to the common misconception about realism.

ENBSeries wrote:
I had lot of quarrel with users about this. Most people seems see no difference, it's like blind can't see and no matter how hard you try, can't explain how things looks like, obvious to one is strange and abnormal for another.

Agree, I think most of them are probably in good faith, but there's always someone that just keep defending his idea, even after seeing his argument is wrong, just not to admit his mistake.
Is a little sad when it happens. Except when are haters/trolls, in that case slapping a good comparison picture under their nose can be satisfactory :ugeek: :P

Author:  Harry Southall [ 13 Jun 2017, 08:58 ]
Post subject:  Re: About realism in Skyrim

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Author:  kingeric1992 [ 13 Jun 2017, 16:55 ]
Post subject:  Re: About realism in Skyrim

@Lastblade

CA in your demo pic ( top left corner in the first wiki demo pic you linked )
Image

also, you can see CA if you wear glasses.

"overcast" look is what most those desaturated preset are aiming for, but ofc it should be weather dependent.

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