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 Post subject: Re: TES Skyrim SE 0.310
PostPosted: 16 Sep 2017, 10:43 
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benhat wrote:
SkyrimSE:
ENB will run on Win8/10 without memory issues (remember the memory limit issue with nvidia/MS.. whatever it was? which makes oldSkrim with ENB unplayable for many people with huge modding)
roxahris wrote:
However, I have not gone to the effort of running the DX9 version in Windows 7 to get around the video memory limit, so that may be a major limiting factor.
Windows 10 DX9 4GB VRAM limit has already been fixed by Microsoft after they received reports from Skyrim players. The fix is already available in Insider Builds of Win10 and will be available for all normal users with the Fall Creator's Update that releases on October 17.
Here is the fix confirmed by a MS DirectX developer:
https://www.reddit.com/r/skyrimmods/com ... ed_in_new/
Here is an earlier post about the issue, the replies from "MSFTJesse" explain why the bug existed and how he fixed it:
https://www.reddit.com/r/skyrimmods/com ... indows_10/
MSFTJesse and a couple of other MS employees respond to bug reports from Skyrim modders. A few days ago they fixed a bug with Mod Organizer and multiple MS employees checked the MO source code to fix it (MS link, check gaming section of changelog https://blogs.windows.com/windowsexperi ... 50-mobile/), it's funny that Microsoft helps Skyrim modders more than Bethesda.

benhat wrote:
btw, i think SkyrimSE did not have an update since about 9 month? which is good for modding i guess. one could think bethesda has drawn a final line and only if big shit happens would there be a new update. but who knows...
No, there will be more SSE updates later. SSE team is currently working on the Nintendo Switch version which will release in a couple of months. After that there will be more SSE updates to add Creation Club to the game. And after that there will be an SSE executable patch every time a new mod is added to Creation Club because that's how Creation Club mods work (their info is in the exe like DLC add ons) so there will probably be nonstop SSE patches for years.

roxahris wrote:
FiftyTifty wrote:
words
I'd like to see what stats you based that on, seeing as I've heard of generally no cases where AMD performance exceeds Nvidia's when it comes to DX11 outside of AMD-backed games... Even the synthetic tests I've seen show them lagging behind outside Vulkan. Time and time again, the word from developers is that their DX11 driver is inefficient and their implementation works against the strengths of their cards.
I agree with this, from what I have seen Nvidia cards outperform AMD cards in all DX11 titles when you match equal hardware, even AMD optimized games. AMD cards only sometimes outperform Nvidia cards in AMD-optimized titles when you compare cards of the same MSRP, because Nvidia overprices their cards because of their superior market position. For example:
Nvidia GTX 1060 - MSRP $250 / 4.4 TFlops FP performance / 6GB memory with 192 GB/s bandwidth / 120 Watt TDP
AMD RX 580 - MSRP $230 / 6.2 TFlops FP performance / 8 GB memory with 256 GB/s bandwidth / 185 Watt TDP
Nvidia GTX 1070 - MSRP $380 / 6.5 TFlops FP performance / 8 GB with 256 GB/s bandwidth / 150 Watt TDP
Of course due to GPU Boost 3.0 and better thermal performance Nvidia cards are actually higher than advertised teraflop performance in practice but even still, as you can see, on a hardware level RX 580 is more similar to GTX 1070 but on a price level it is competing with GTX 1060. In Vulkan/DX 12 games RX 580 can beat 1060 and come close to 1070 as you'd expect. But in DX 11 games RX 580 cannot even come anywhere near 1070 in any game, in fact it cannot even beat 1060 in probably 95% of games. In the past Nvidia used to sell their full size GPUs as "800" or "80" level cards, but during the DX11 era because of their massive driver advantage over AMD Nvidia changed their market strategy and now sell their full size GPUs as ridiculously priced "Ti" and "Titan" cards and sell their mid size GPUs as the "80" and "70" cards (1080 and 1070 would have been 1060 Ti and 1060 under the old style marketing and Titan and 1080 Ti would have been 1080 and 1070). This why Nvidia has become so incredibly profitable recently, I heard this past year was their most profitable in history.

roxahris wrote:
Skyrim SE does not use the same godrays system as Fallout 4. IIRC from the debug strings it looks like it was reverse-engineered from one of Ubisoft's game/technical documents. It is also based on tessellation, but it works very differently to Nvidia's. (The same goes for a lot in SSE... the same things, implemented differently.)
That makes sense, Skyrim SE was developed by Bethesda's new Montreal studio, so there are probably a lot of ex-Ubisoft employees there since Ubisoft has a massive studio in Montreal with thousands of employees.

ENBSeries wrote:
I'm not sure should i try improve mod for SSE or not. It's so much limiting or time consuming to make it any close to old skyrim mod... maybe put effort to Fallout 4 is better, because unique game. No idea what is more popular, i see that old skyrim version is not popular now.
I think Skyrim SE is a better choice than Fallout 4 for the following reasons:
- Elder Scrolls is a much more popular franchise than Fallout and SSE will represent the franchise for many years
- Fallout 4 is considered disappointing by many people, I don't think there will be long term popularity like Skyrim especially among enthusiast players

Bethesda has already confirmed they haven't even started on Elder Scrolls 6 and that they are going to release 2 new full scale games before TES6 (both currently in production) because they are tired of working only on TES and Fallout. Also, they said that the current gen console CPUs are not powerful enough for their ideas for TES6 (PS4 and XB1 use super weak AMD Jaguar netbook CPUs and Switch uses an ARM mobile CPU). Finally, TES games have 3 to 5 year development times. Considering all these things, TES6 will probably not be released until 2021-2022 which is probably why they created Skyrim SE in the first place - it's probably going to be the only TES game released during the PS4/XB1 generation (along with TES Online).

As for popularity, Skyrim is far more popular than Fallout 4 though SSE release has split the userbase on PC. Here are some stats:

Current daily peak concurrent users on Steam, i.e. number of people playing at the same time (source: Steam daily stats: http://store.steampowered.com/stats/):
Fallout 4: 22,374
Skyrim: 18,567
Skyrim SE: 13,893

So there are currently 32,460 daily concurrent Skyrim players and 22,374 concurrent Fallout 4 players (playing at the same moment, so total daily number of user is probably hundreds of thousands for each game). Remember that FO4 is still a new game and Skyrim is 6 years old. Before SSE was released, regular Skyrim always beat Fallout 4 on this list, usually around 30,000 to 50,000 daily concurrent players. FO4 was only more popular than Skyrim when it was first released.

Those are the current daily stats, and FO4 is higher than normal because Creation Club was just released. SSE will regain popularity when Creation Club is released for that game. Here are the numbers of total players on Steam that own these games:
Fallout 4: 4.8 million
Skyrim: 11.5 million
Skyrim SE: 6.4 million

There are far more Skyrim owners than FO4 owners.

As for modding situation, SSE is held back by the lack of SKSE and full-featured ENB right now. SKSE alpha version for SSE just released this week, so the situation may change in the next few months - many important Skyrim mods haven't been ported to SSE because of a lack of SKSE (and therefore, lack of SkyUI and MCM). Meanwhile, Fallout 4 mods are all from scratch, so the lack of good script extender and ENB is not as important, but once SSE modding scene really starts I think it will become bigger than Fallout 4. Most people still playing Skyrim these days have complex setups with hundreds of mods and a good ENB (like me), so there's no way we are ready to switch to SSE. But if all my SKSE mods and ENB features were available, I would definitely switch to SSE immediately since the engine is far, far more stable and runs better.

Finally, both SSE and Fallout 4 are getting Creation Club with "official mods" so basically Bethesda will be financially supporting and marketing both of these games for years. They consider original Skyrim a dead game, they even hid it in the Steam store search results (you can only easily find it if you already own it, Bethesda does not want anyone to remember that old Skyrim exists). SSE for Nintendo Switch is coming soon and SSE VR Edition is also planned, this game is not going to fade in popularity anytime soon.

----

Final opinion: SSE has a lot of ENB-like features built-in. Yes, they are usually not as good, but they exist. God rays, SSAO, screen space reflections, temporal AA, etc. So if you decide to continue SSE ENB development, I think the priorities would be to just include the key features that SSE is still missing, most importantly detailed shadows and subsurface scattering. Maybe SSIL. But most importantly detailed shadows because the vanilla game is missing so many shadows that should exist. Everything else would just be a bonus but not strictly necessary.


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Tomoko
 Post subject: Re: TES Skyrim SE 0.310
PostPosted: 16 Sep 2017, 11:11 
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I know I would like to see more on FO4. Skyrim has been out 6 years. SE doesn't change that or the game - its still the same thing. At least FO4 is newer and what I play the most. But considering the numbers I don't really know how you would choose as it can be hard to gauge popularity. I still see Skyrim active and suspect it will be a slow and steady rate much like their older games are still played.

Although FO4 looks pretty good to me while SE looks so horrible I have no interest in playing it. But I suspect that is more because I have gotten use to what I think Skyrim should look like after 6 years, especially with ENB, and so going to SE it just looks wrong to me.

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 Post subject: Re: TES Skyrim SE 0.310
PostPosted: 16 Sep 2017, 12:29 
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Maybe then its better to modify Fallout 4 at first to finish most required features in it while it's still popular, then get back to SSE. I very much doubt about SSE modding graphics from my side (skse independent0).

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 Post subject: Re: TES Skyrim SE 0.310
PostPosted: 03 Oct 2017, 19:57 
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Joined: 03 Oct 2017, 19:49
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[s]Hi guys.

Situation after Bethesda updated SkyrimSE to 1.5.3 ("Creation Club"). My game crashes when I have the ENB enabled. After renaming d3d11.dll and d3dcompiler_46e.dll files, game works fine.

Other users confirm. We were able to narrow it down to the ENB. Just to let you know.[/s]

EDIT: It's the FreeFlyCam plugin. THE ENB IS FINE


Last edited by ponurymazepa on 03 Oct 2017, 20:39, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: TES Skyrim SE 0.310
PostPosted: 03 Oct 2017, 19:59 
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Joined: 05 Jan 2013, 11:38
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New update for Skyrim SE seems to have caused incompatibilities with the ENB. :(


Enabled - Crash
Disabled - Loads and plays.


Indeed, further testing its concerning the Plug-In control or said Plug-In I am using.

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ENB : V310
Skyrim SE




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 Post subject: Re: TES Skyrim SE 0.310
PostPosted: 03 Oct 2017, 21:51 
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Joined: 03 Oct 2017, 21:48
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ponurymazepa wrote:
[s]Hi guys.

Situation after Bethesda updated SkyrimSE to 1.5.3 ("Creation Club"). My game crashes when I have the ENB enabled. After renaming d3d11.dll and d3dcompiler_46e.dll files, game works fine.

Other users confirm. We were able to narrow it down to the ENB. Just to let you know.[/s]

EDIT: It's the FreeFlyCam plugin. THE ENB IS FINE

Is there a way to disable this plugin? Sorry if that's a dumb question I'm not overly familiar with any of this. My game has been CTDing since I updated USSEP not 10 minutes ago so I'm looking for a fix.

ETA: Didn't realize the FreeFlyCam wasn't something that came with the ENB data. So nvm because I don't have that. Still CTDing though and I've verified my game files and everything. Will update if I find a fix that works for me.


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 Post subject: Re: TES Skyrim SE 0.310
PostPosted: 04 Oct 2017, 01:02 
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Ok, i'll check it out

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 Post subject: Re: TES Skyrim SE 0.310
PostPosted: 04 Oct 2017, 01:36 
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ENBSeries wrote:
Ok, i'll check it out

Hey I forgot to edit my last post but I removed the ENB and all my mods and the base game is still crashing so I'm not sure what it is but I don't think it's the ENB!


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 Post subject: Re: TES Skyrim SE 0.310
PostPosted: 06 Oct 2017, 00:06 
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Joined: 09 Oct 2014, 01:29
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With SKSE being in alpha for Special Edition and the mods coming over like crazy this week, the last cherry on top for SE is ENB! My #1 hope is for per-weather settings (I want to be able to do per-weather LUTs.)

I hope everything's going well with you Boris, I just sent another donation last week and will continue to do so whenever I can :)


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 Post subject: Re: TES Skyrim SE 0.310
PostPosted: 06 Oct 2017, 12:39 
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Per weather setting most likely never be at all, because game keep updating.

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