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 Post subject: AMD Ryzen or Intel?
PostPosted: 02 Mar 2017, 16:13 
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*sensei*
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I am the first to admit I am not very good about hardware and computers so consider this a pretty newb question. I am thinking of a new PC (probably with win7 Pro on it this time) and was doing a little research on the new Ryzen CPU. Thinking this one:

AMD Ryzen 7 1800X (8-Core) 3.6 GHz (4.0 GHz Turbo)

versus getting one of the current i7 Intel CPU's.

I know ENB tends to work best with Nvidia. What about the CPU? Since using ENB (and ReShade when ENB is not an option) has become fairly important to my gaming experience I wanted to know if ENB played well with AMD CPU. In games like FO4 and Skyrim feedback from friends and users of my presets seem to suggest AMD is almost better for those games in some cases then Intel.

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 Post subject: Re: AMD Ryzen or Intel?
PostPosted: 02 Mar 2017, 17:22 
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At the moment, it's too early to tell. I mean, it launched just today. One thing to note is that AMD CPUs should be considered seperately from AMD GPUs - they aren't going to have the same issues.

It's tough to compare them to AMD's previous CPUs because their last architectures were complete flops. Ryzen seems to be quite competent in comparison. but all I've seen of it so far is benchmarks. They're all fairly positive benchmarks, but they don't relate to real world environments. In the end, there's no hard data on how well Ryzen runs Bethesda games. Looking at Anandtech's review, it sounds like Ryzen is excellent in multi-threaded performance, but middle of the road elsewhere. In terms of Bethesda games, this is probably a weakness. Mind you, we also don't know how well it overclocks, and it runs at lower frequencies to Intel's CPUs at stock - another point to consider.

So you should probably sit on the question a while longer. But there really should be no problems with ENB working with Ryzen - the AMD issues with ENB are from differences in GPU hardware and graphics drivers.

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 Post subject: Re: AMD Ryzen or Intel?
PostPosted: 02 Mar 2017, 17:55 
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roxahris wrote:
At the moment, it's too early to tell. I mean, it launched just today. One thing to note is that AMD CPUs should be considered seperately from AMD GPUs - they aren't going to have the same issues.

It's tough to compare them to AMD's previous CPUs because their last architectures were complete flops. Ryzen seems to be quite competent in comparison. but all I've seen of it so far is benchmarks. They're all fairly positive benchmarks, but they don't relate to real world environments. In the end, there's no hard data on how well Ryzen runs Bethesda games. Looking at Anandtech's review, it sounds like Ryzen is excellent in multi-threaded performance, but middle of the road elsewhere. In terms of Bethesda games, this is probably a weakness. Mind you, we also don't know how well it overclocks, and it runs at lower frequencies to Intel's CPUs at stock - another point to consider.

So you should probably sit on the question a while longer. But there really should be no problems with ENB working with Ryzen - the AMD issues with ENB are from differences in GPU hardware and graphics drivers.


Thank you Roxahris. Aye agree its early. I just don't know much about AMD in general although been reading a lot and seems like Ryzen is a large jump forward. But most likely best to wait a while and see how things develop with it. Although if I end up needing a new PC sooner rather than later I will need to decide to either take the risk of a switch or go with the more known (and more costly) intel version.

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 Post subject: Re: AMD Ryzen or Intel?
PostPosted: 02 Mar 2017, 19:59 
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I got TheStilt's (a user from Anandtech) results for a particular draw call benchmark, and it doesn't look good. Ryzen is a slight improvement over Phenom II, which is poor.

Edit: To clarify, the NVidia GPU results are erroneous, due to driver shenanigans that won't ever be used in actual games, AFAIK. Just makes green team look good on synthetics, so ignore 'em.

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 Post subject: Re: AMD Ryzen or Intel?
PostPosted: 03 Mar 2017, 03:18 
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Oh, it's so bad, AMD still at same place by this bottleneck. My result of this test is 25.7 fps, it's 3.9 ghz (works for this test as 3.5+turboboost) haswell i5-4690K and gf650ti win7 x64, also 16k rocks and 1 ship with instancing disabled in checkbox and size of window not changed (no vsync).

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 Post subject: Re: AMD Ryzen or Intel?
PostPosted: 03 Mar 2017, 20:18 
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ENBSeries wrote:
Oh, it's so bad, AMD still at same place by this bottleneck. My result of this test is 25.7 fps, it's 3.9 ghz (works for this test as 3.5+turboboost) haswell i5-4690K and gf650ti win7 x64, also 16k rocks and 1 ship with instancing disabled in checkbox and size of window not changed (no vsync).


TheStilt's found that latency (Lx cache or RAM, can't remember) is super high in Windows 10, about 50ns, but is a consistent 20ns in Windows 7. He's gonna run the benchmark later, see if the score changes at all.


But god damn man, I was hoping AMD would have finally fixed this. If there's not a large improvement, I guess I'll be buying an i5 2500k off Ebay, and a fresh LGA1155 motherboard from Kikatek.

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 Post subject: Re: AMD Ryzen or Intel?
PostPosted: 04 Mar 2017, 03:31 
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But AMD Ryzen looks good for multithreading applications and when programmers finally learn how to make effective multithreading in games, then Ryzen will be much better. And not all games suffer from draw calls issue, this depends much from game itself. Bethesda games have also issue with too much frequent calls of thread locking functions, maybe Ryzen will take lead in this, i don't know.

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 Post subject: Re: AMD Ryzen or Intel?
PostPosted: 04 Mar 2017, 04:09 
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ENBSeries wrote:
But AMD Ryzen looks good for multithreading applications and when programmers finally learn how to make effective multithreading in games, then Ryzen will be much better. And not all games suffer from draw calls issue, this depends much from game itself. Bethesda games have also issue with too much frequent calls of thread locking functions, maybe Ryzen will take lead in this, i don't know.


Lo' and behold, using Windows 7 bumps up the performance by a couple frames: https://forums.anandtech.com/threads/ry ... t-38773988

I'll update my chart in a bit.

And that's a good point, Fallout 4's Ryzen numbers are pretty good, but the reviewers don't test the draw call limit scenarios. Best one was in the center of Boston Commons, but it doesn't issue anywhere near as many draw calls as the top of Corvega.

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 Post subject: Re: AMD Ryzen or Intel?
PostPosted: 07 Mar 2017, 02:02 
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Update: New benchmarks, and new data.

With SMT enabled on Windows 10, Ryzen scores +2 fps
With SMT disabled on Windows 7, Ryzen scores +4 fps.

Image


Btw, is it possible to have images auto-downscaled, like on other forums?

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 Post subject: Re: AMD Ryzen or Intel?
PostPosted: 07 Mar 2017, 04:18 
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22fps on my l5639,
Image

I wonder how those duel socket x58 handling this.

And don't forget the high fov in VR setup, you get instant +2000 draw call on fov from 80 to 120 in diamond city market.

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